2004-02-18, Tom and mattis on server: sphere.pl, page: hello.txt
(Tom -) hi, it's been a while :)
(mattis -) yes, days pass. :) Examns went well?
(Tom -) looks like it's done, just one very little thing left, but not much. :) how was ting3 or maybe even 4 ? ok thanks :)
(mattis -) cool, 4 is on sunday 19 CET. You are most welcome, we are standing ready with the red carpets :) Saw the ting wiki moved to s23?
(Tom -) yup BTW do you know about "Export to HTML" function, maybe that will be nicer to put at wiki ? .. you mean they are technical ? yup - how you do that ? it's exported from moon-edit ? looks nice and ordered chronologically with nicknames.. I'll check out the original :) yup.. looks like you were typing ordered way
(mattis -) I'm so plainly untechnical, k export to html tried it, but talk to the tech folks on the ting, there are some guys froms #esp (freenode) who seem pretty fit and l o v e moon-edt. The ting3 script is pretty readable. my friends did it. dunno how. Was a bit of fuzz. Anyhow. For a good pupose. The colours should get transformed in name. Or maybe keep them, wiki can do. I got them go in the best disciplined wiki thread mode way I could. Btw: not what we do now, what we do is dirty. Not write everything under another, like that nobody can read it later, it has no chronology anymore.
(Tom -) like this, yeah, the problem is it should be always in "question -> answer" order
(mattis -) xactly. You have had some ideas about a button making your cursor get to the end already?
(Tom -) I even tried that with my development version. It's fine, the problem is: you lose freedom a little, can be annoying, I mean.. at the time you are chatting you don't need extra data like nick/date/time.. you only need them after some time...
(mattis -) Are you reliably reachable on a wiki, Tom, and if not I'd like to invite you for s23/ting-wiki
(Tom -) ok, although I don't have usually much time to read most things, even about MoonEdit :/
(mattis -) make a little homepage. people have ideas and are really very interested in mon-edit. It will be of benefit for all.
(Tom -) ok. maybe a forum will do ? ah forum is a mess :/ I'm just thinking about some way to do it not messy, yeah, it takes too much time to read forum threads.
(mattis -) professinals work on wiki. Forums suck!
(Tom -) it would be fun to have bots of course, just mess is a problem (bot should be much more intelligent than IRC bots)
(mattis -) mess is a good keyword. What worries me is the mess on the file-list. It should at least order alpahabeticaly. Any chance for that? Important (its the weakest point now, I think)
(Tom -) yup - I'm mainly worried about MoonEdit = big mess now.. ah...
(mattis -) as great as it is on the page level a much a mess it is above. Integration in wiki. Wiki is a s sexy on the meta-level.
(Tom -) I feel wiki is a little big messy too. For example: the "simple" forum have some advantages, like clear chronology and you can easily track what's new (at least if forum engine have appropriate tools to send announcements, remember what thread you read etc..).. of course at the same time this chronology is the weakness, because you documents can't evolve like in wiki
(mattis -) what you see on wiki is how messy people are, they have all possibilities in wiki. wiki has obvious chronology on the recent changes. Looking at the history all processes can be understood chronologically.
(Tom -) yup
(mattis -) moonedit's history slider is very nice, really useful somehow. It just takes 10 seconds to see how many people have been on this page - zack zack, done. The f6, f8 finetune-butons are nice too.
(Tom -) Quick ideas for MoonEdit: (just inveting ideas now)
- store date/time when client gets connected, and allow to quickly go at history bar to user connection time <- this could be only a little enchancemnts, but gives real date/time feeling.. although it's hard to remember the time of your last visit.. but of course it could be automatic.. hm... you could even have "track this file" option or something (and when something will change it will inform you by email or just as private messages from ME server - at the top of filelist or something, maybe other users could mark file as "abused", after some troll attack)
to sum up:
- mechanism to easier tracking what files were modified from your last visit
- user can mark file as: abused / :)
- or maybe simply highlight differences between some point in history bar and recent doc (problem: hard to see deletions, unless it will be more complex feature)
(mattis -) I write different when somone else is in. It's easier, when someone corrects you here and now. Having a break and reading what the other did, or going away for a minute. It is magnetic, it speeds up working a lot, it's collaborativly working.
(Tom -) yup.. it's a funny feeling when you not type alone, you are thinking differently and expect someone will at least read (if not join) your conclusions/visions/ideas.
(mattis -) I havn't met one not completly stunned and enthusiastic asbout it. This colabarativ process is just the same on wiki, but it is much slower. the file-list, it needs order - esle ya' föcked! :) (and we with you).
(Tom -) yup order must be
(mattis -) if it was alpahabetially I could let all server-related pages begin with ! and the wiki pages would be underneath them.
(Tom -) oh.. just alphabetical is easy enough to fix... hehe I'm just sleepy today, but will do it as fast as possible then (it's a server side problem only of course) idea:
- make some artifical filenames: "(filelistA)" (alphabetical) "(filelistD)" (date)
(mattis -) as a first step: cool, date would be like recent changes. Like on wiki (up to a certain size) the most interesting one. But moon-edit is much faster than wiki. The recent changes on wikipedia for example are worthless, things happen too fast.
(Tom -) i love ideas that are easy to add (even on old version) :) probably stupid idea: show both lists at once (alphabetic + date).. ok so sorted by date will be default probably
(mattis -) you could tell easyly what pages have not been touched anymore receintly, they are down on the page. Useful. Much more info then now. the alpabetic one doesnt really count that much. Would be nice, sure. wiki has it as the page index, helpful but not that important. in next me version?
(Tom -) no.. I just plan to make a small patch for server.. new me version is very experimental, I tried a few things in it and didn't decide what should be left and didn't finish some features neither. I still hesitate about some things. Sure although simplicity is nice.
(mattis -) I hope you can get in talking to some tech-folks, I feel there is a powerful bunch of ideas flying around for moon-edit. It an urgent thing to elaborate this text here accessible for every lame browser on a wiki. Too few have moon-edit installed, it could be millions. :) I'm not joking.
(Tom -) I'm thinking about some commercial version - some guys were asking for that. Still for for wiki/personal usage = free.
(mattis -) Let's go for the peace-nobel-prize in 07, forget commercial :)
(Tom -) hehe - that would be a nice trick, lol :)
(mattis -) right! 06, if we hurry and you opensource a bit.
(Tom -) what about Linus, will he attend ? :P
(mattis -) He should be with it, will be a Party, my god what a party!
(Tom -) Ok, looks promising, for now I should sleep to keep health.
(mattis -) good idea, cu Tom, a delight as usual it was.
(Tom -) yup.. look forward for new server version with date/alphabetic-order in it :) ok cu fun chat
(mattis -) buona notte. h o p e ! try to be with it on sunday. :)
(Tom -) :)