TingWiki/ting1

Ting 1, Monday 7th of February 2005, 14:00 GMT
moon-edit server: c.h23.org, pages ting_(document) and ting_(chat). The page skype_contact is for listing up to be called for skype conference call.

Document
Ting 0.1 Agenda

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Participants ([en]sign up / [fr]inscrivez-vous):


 * Arnaud Fontaine
 * Christophe Ducamp end of Me session : 15:25 GMT
 * Luigi Bertuzzi - arrivederci a partir from four pm :)
 * Mattis Manzel
 * Olivier Auber
 * Olivier Seres end of the ME session : 16:00 Paris time
 * Sylvie Bourguet
 * Pierre Bernard
 * Enki Boehm
 * Ludovic Dubost

[en]Proposed themes: [fr]Themes proposés : [it]Temi proposti: [de]Vorgeschlagene Themen:


 * [en]choose a name: ting ?
 * [fr]choisir un nom : ting ?
 * [it]scegliere un nome: ting?
 * [de]Wahl eines Namens: Ting?

Guardian angel: ?
 * [en]application of moon-edit
 * [fr]utilisation de moon-edit
 * [it]uso di moon-edit
 * [de]Verwendung von Moon-Edit

Guardian angel : Xtof?
 * [en]in collaborative translation
 * [fr]a des fins de traduction collaborative
 * [it]per traduzioni collaborative
 * [de]Fuer kollaborative Uebersetzung

Guardian angel: Mattis?
 * [en]on teaching/learning languages
 * [fr]`a des fins d'apprentissage de langues
 * [it]per insegnare/imparare lingue
 * [de]Zum Erlernen von Sprachen

Guardian angel : Olivier
 * [en]in making/managing enterprises
 * [fr]en entreprise
 * [it]per fare/gestire impresa
 * [de]Zum schaffen/managen von Unternehmen

Guardian angel : Esuji
 * [en]integration of Moonedit with Wikis and Revision Control
 * [fr]intégration wiki/svn-MoonEdit
 * [it]per integrare wiki/svn e MoonEdit
 * [de]Integration mit Wikis und Revision Control

Guardian angel shinobi?
 * [en]moon-edit for macintosh?
 * [fr]moon-edit pour le macintosh ?
 * [it]moon-edit per il mac ?
 * [de]Moon-Edit auf OSX?

Guardian angel: Ludovic
 * [en]neccessity of an open platform (opensourcing moonedit)
 * [fr]il faut une plateforme ouverte ( moonedit opensource)
 * [it]necessita' di una piattaforma aperta (moonedit opensource)
 * [de]Die Notwendigkeit einer offenen Plattform (opensource moonedit)

Guardian angel: Mattis to organize it ;-)
 * [en]a meeting in Venice?
 * [fr]une rencontre a Venise ?
 * [it]una riunione a Venezia
 * [de]Ein Treffen in Venedig?

CONTENT


 * [en]in making/managing enterprises
 * [fr]en entreprise
 * [it]per fare/gestire impresa
 * [de]Zum schaffen/managen von Unternehmen

Chat
ting

(chat) recommendation (no rule): Rather add new contents at the end of the page.

See:

http://www.emacswiki.org/cw/TransporterRoom

please for finding out how to use the two pages ting_(chat) and ting_(document) simultaneously during a ting-session.

Next (the first) ting-session is scheduled for Monday, 7th of February 14:00 GMT (15:00 middle european time).

Participants ([en]sign up / [fr]inscrivez-vous):


 * Arnaud Fontaine
 * ChristopheDucamp -- sous UbuntuLinux ;)
 * LuigiBertuzzi --windows xp malheureusement :( oh! ;)
 * Mattis Manzel
 * Olivier Auber
 * Olivier Seres
 * SylvieBourguet --pcbrezh:)
 * Pierre Bernard
 * Enki Boehm
 * Ludovic Dubost

[en]Proposed themes: [fr]Thèmes proposés : [it]Temi proposti


 * [en]application of moon-edit
 * [fr]utilisation de moon-edit
 * [it]uso di moon-edit


 * [en]in collaborative translation
 * [fr]à des fins de traduction collaborative
 * [it]per traduzioni collaborative


 * [en]on teaching/learning languages
 * [fr]à des fins d'apprentissage de langues
 * [it]per insegnare/imparare lingue


 * [en]in making/managing enterprises
 * [fr]en entreprise
 * [it]per fare/gestire impresa


 * [en]integration of wiki-moonedit
 * [fr]intégration wiki-MoonEdit
 * [it]per integrare wiki e MoonEdit


 * [en]moon-edit for macintosh?
 * [fr]moon-edit pour le macintosh ?
 * [it]monn-edit per il mac ?


 * [en]neccessity of an open platform (opensourcing moonedit)
 * [fr]il faut une plateforme ouverte ( moonedit opensource)
 * [it]necessita' di una piattaforma aperta (moonedit opensource)


 * [en]a meeting in Venice?
 * [fr]une réunion à Venise ? ACCENT??? y a un problème d'accent "grave" but l'accent "aigü" works :)
 * [it]una riunione a Venezia (by all means!!)

why venice? I THINK BECAUSE mATTIS IS THERE SOMETIMES oh right right.


 * discussion sur la biere libre


 * Is the name ting ok?

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====================================================================================================== Please list here with your skype-username if you want to be contacted for a skype conference call during the ting-session:
 * ze6tmd Pierre Bernard - contacted
 * ellebertuzzi ...

or search for skype user: mattismanzel and send a message

We should rather concentrate on moon-edit during the ting-session. Give skype a try, but not waste too much time on it. There will be more opportunities.

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I just wonder if it wouldn't be useful to have a wiki for this and the following sessions. ting-wiki is my spontaneous thought, and these are not always the worst ones.

http://oddwiki.taoriver.net/wiki.pl/TingWiki/HomePage

c.h23.org

Hope it will be useful.

Hi, bla and chat section:
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hihi (me two times with two boxes - both colors greenish, I hope there will be enough :)

hi.. moonedit is annoying because cutpaste doesn't work on my linux box.. so anyone here yet ? :P at least tell me you feel with me ;) (also moonedit crashed on a win98 box when we tried to use it spontaneously yesterday)... not to mention i'd like to have osx support :P

Cut, copy after making uo text with shift and the arrow keys. works. see also the EDIT menue

tried copy&paste manually with edit menu.. doesn't work, neither pasting content from my X clipboard.. (some others i talked to have experienced the same under linux moonedit)

The win version works better. I did some criminal install on my linux box, it woks but the essential thing is the sound for me (at the moment - it's magnetic)

anyway.. i still love it.. we should integrate it with wiki's and everything else. tav did some preliminary work on integrating moonedit with a wiki.

Great, where to see something? http://dev.espnow.net/ (l/p esp/hmz) (its not secret, just not meant for search engine indexing)

is tom, the moonedit developer guy coming?

I invited Tom by email. He has examns and few time these days.

(we should reimplement moonedit in python!) well this is one of those problems i would rate as "geeky"

see the accents below.. how can we fix it without code..

accents can be avoided if we use letter + apostrophe (temporary fix)

Good, I think. They will soon be working, Tom knows and cares (it m u s t  be open source).

also integration with almost everything (wikis and whatnot) would be something we really want for a collaborative editor. anyway, for now some rudimentary integration with wikis etc. is possible.

Sound: i can hear the (others) typing sound but find it confusing when i cant see where others are typing

You can find the cursor of a person by clicking the name in the user list (on the right). Good to know - However the translation on the flight session i tried a while ago was GREAT!!!

i can't hear any sound

(the linux version has no sound yet)

mattis is here twice?

two boxes. The 800 laptop with skype is lame, I might have to leave me her).

alright

moonedit wiki integration, or more generalized, moonedit & revision control systems, is an interesting subject.

hello i think we should translate a little bit otherwise ze6tmd will find it boring

in French? -- luigi

Can we set up an agenda? Otherwise this will be confusing.

Before completing an Agenda we should make a distinction between things for developers and thing for Users -- should we??? - luigi

1°) 2°)
 * [en]wiki/revision control integration
 * [fr] wiki/actualisation des modifications

wiki integration is for users, revision control integration for developers, but both face the same problems. are developer and user problems really that different ? yes when users are not programmers - right! plain talk ;)

but the issues with live editing and reconciling it with the current revision system as wikis have it, is exactly the same as with general revision control systems.

tha above is something that makes me feel like i should think before i can say i understand :(

what is a general revision control system?

basically when you change something on a wiki, all the changes you made at that time, are submitted at once. so the nice thing about editing live is that many people at once can make changes, but when you also want people to be capable of making changes in their webbrowser (with current technology), you need to submit a revision back to the wiki from time to time, so that others can work on it on a less interactive level. what it's interesting with moon edit is there any edition conflict

this seems to prove that we need a distinction between "changing" a document and changing an application words have to be defined yes integration sounds more like development than uses, (actually i was talking about editing text) you mentioned changing things in your browser yeah, wiki style.

Thomas Kalka showed me some wysiwyg-editors receintly, amazing. I wonder how we are going to turn all these delicious ingredients into one big soupe?

well, with some intermediate server, it would be possible to make javascript based moonedit-compatible webbrowser editors..

esp has some projects regarding webbrowser based collaborative editors http://trac.espnow.net/wiki/Mollaborate

--- Translations ?

(mattis -) We can use another port on login (23456) for getting on a moon-edit server for teaching/learning. German, Italian pages for moon-edit/skype lectures are ready yet.

well, ze6tmd has some difficulties in following us... olivier

un peu ;) -- ze6tmd

(fr)peut etre il faut communiquer en francais aussi ?

Xtof fera la traduction peut etre ? :D

Linux Stuff

xtof boot sous Ubuntu ... il decouvre GnuLinux :) je suis intéressé par l'experience de xtof sur ubuntu ---olivier Pas de Moonedit sous ubuntu mais l'expérience est intéressante A suivre pour une installation avec le mage ! Pas de MoonEdit sous la version liveCD d'ubuntu ... mais installes le en vrai et pas de soucis ;) La, je lui ais file la version CD Live ... ca marche juste ... tout seul :)

hey cool je tourne aussi avec ubuntu ! :) dommage que ce soit galere pour avoir un lecteur de video correct ! :-/

Tu rigoles ??? Totem, c'est tres bien ... Bref, le jour ou il n'y a plus ces problemes de licences et de brevets avec mplayer, il y aura mplayer de retour dans toutes les distribs (actuellement, il est vire de toutes les distribs ... debian, fedora, etc).

> hum ! ah ok :) M enfin a la base y a pas de codecs pr les divX et cie... :(

De toute facon, tu ferais mieux de revenir sous fenetres, hein pierre ? :D

mais euh ! dis que je suis nul !

Juste que t'es encore dans la cible de l'os alternatif :D

Ubuntu j y croyais mais c est pas la distrib miracle encore... Ce serait bien que ca fonctionne tout du 1er coup qd mm... arf ! j ai emmene mon gosse de 9 ans aux Solutions Linux il a bien aimé le stand Nekeme ;)

i'd kill for sushi right now. :) wabisabi, eh?

mamma mia i.e. oh my god!! this is a lot of learning ... too bad i type withh two fingers

so. Is it ok to call sessions like this a ting? Hi Ludovic!

Mattis, do you think we have any chance to see this piece of software released under the GNU GPL ??

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===================== Attempt to structure the ME session

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Seems like more people than Tom only could contribute on the code level to it. It's very important, I think. But Tom is ok, and we shouldn't but kinda sign on the "Tom give it free" page ;)

Is it a ME page or Web page ??

on shere.pl I don't remember where it is, hidden between tons of chat. Moonedit is so sympatically chaotic on the meta level. It needs wiki to walk. And a lot of discipline. Right ... But I remember we did a good collective work translating it last week ...

Hi All ! Maybe the ting document should be used to write the agenda I believe the two document view would be cool: 1 doc, 1 chat ok who agrees in drawing an agenda ? i agree and i think it should be on the ting doc -- luigi

The document mode page. We should test that. Copy over good stuff.

check the ting doc

How did you come un with the TING name ?

scandianvian affinity. Pretty old and pretty "democratic" thing (the word thing comes from the case, the "thing" that was decided by the ting btw)

I believe we should write the specs of the killer realtime wiki that includes real time document editing and chat sessions

There is the ting-wiki on the oddwiki-hive as a place for preparation and reworking results.

Everybody's on document also ?

who starts ?

1°) do u agree in naming leaders for these topics ?

I think it is a good idea.. we need some structure but it should be collaborative.. having a leader per topic allows to have a guardian angel when everything is going off topic

maybe there should first be a short introductory statement of intent for each agenda topic??

agreed, could we put our names in front on the topics we're interested in ?

Oui et on pourrait je ne fais pas la cuisine :) avoir les utilisateurs qui nous dressent un autel aussi ? Je reve ...

Ah zut ... Bon ... mais je connais des restos sympa Belleville :)

miam on s'égare

Bon pas mal cet outil, je pense le donner au marketing pour le segment d'jeuns 14-16 ans ou alors faut créer un minimum de règles (as usual)

end of the attempt

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Début du débat

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pourquoi pas.. ya quand meme un pb de melange doc/chat c'est sur..deja on peut faire une version qui respecte l'ordre du chat rien que le fait d'avoir les caracteres qui s'affichent en temps reel c'est pas mal

heu ... c'est pas le but : pas un chat ni un blog ... mais un editeur collectif. oui d'accord.. mais justement avant de faire un doc faut en parler il suffit de voir ce que le groupe fait la..

Ben pour ça t'as JAbber ou IRC, etc ... c'est plus facile que jabber.. un seul endroit.. temps reel c'est top pas besoin d'un truc ordonne chronodate .... a la rigueur oui mais dans des pages speciales. faut voir.. ca depend si les gens s'organisent ou pas.. mais le fait d'avoir le temps reel accelere la conversation qui est un pb du chat.. tu vois les mots au fur et a mesure et tu prepares ta réponse... tu peux répondre pendant qu'on finit la phrase.. Je me marre parce que Talk fait ca depuis LONGTEMPS :) Bon, c'etait un limite .. ;) 100% d'accord.. sauf que talk marchait pas! mais si !!!! tu rigoles ou bien ????? J'ai utilise talk pendant plus de 10 ans ... marchait tres bien ... mais a 2 users ... enfin bref. ytalk + de users d'ailleurs.. non mais le pb de talk c'etait de contacter les gens.. je me rappeles des tentatives ratés car cela partait dans le mauvais term

|         \\    | |   /       \   |   /        \  |  /         \ | /          \|/           v     (finaly someone starts to draw)

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====================== (a topic where everybody aggree) it depends - if i eat out in england ialian food does not taste so good as chez moi
 * ) Sushi
 * ) Ramen
 * ) Pho
 * ) Spaghetti alle vongole
 * ) Spaghetti aglio olio e peperoncino
 * ) Tagliatelle con pesto
 * ) farfalle
 * ) Boeuf bourguignon
 * ) crêpes au beurre
 * ) Maronipalatschinken
 * ) Galette complete (oeuf miroir andouille de guémné fromage) -- oui, bien celle la

et boire aussi :  SylVIE POURQUOI TOUT CE PINARD, Ben ... a donne soif de taper sur un clavier :)

c'est tout gris the grey power! disons que les differentes nuances de gris ... c'est pas encore ça :) c'est plus joli ....oui sinon on pourrait etre confusionnés
 * ) Vin rouge (Vino has names: Bordeaux - Chianti - Prosecco .... etc)
 * ) Haute cotes de nuit
 * ) Mont Trachet
 * ) Un petit Chardonnay de derriere les fagots -- si si y'en a des tres tres bien ... bon pas des vins de garde ... -- Oui bon Olivier, les corbieres aussi ... pas la peine de me pirater mon choix ;)
 * ) Chateau Millaut 2000 (je continue dans la liste des vins de pays qui se boivent ;spammer)) -- lol
 * ) qq vins de pomerol (olivierS) La Conseillante ? oui entre autres, il faut que je goute quelques vins avant qu'ils ne soient trop tard. Fin février=célibataire:)Partant pour te vider la cave j'amene les cigares tu n'auras pas assez soif. > Je peux venir avec des amis !
 * ) (dans la serie autre petit vin de pays) Buzet
 * ) Bolee de cidre brut bouche. --Bon, va falloir les accents - J'ai une caisse dans ma voiture ! j'échange la caisse contre une bouteille de La Conseillante !
 * ) Caipirinha -- pas avec les crepes tout de meme :) ah ben c'est big soupe avant l'heure
 * ) guinness
 * ) NO BEER oh! - everyone hates beer! -- we all love guinness !! ;) No Free beer free bourbon free scotch???
 * ) free whiskey irish of course or from kiribati where is ? - kiribati is at http://www.ki/ and i think the .ki registry is the biggest employer in kiribati :)) o.ki Ican't make copypast
 * ) champagne tant qu'a faire lots of champaign

Ok back to business.. ON PEUT PAS COLLER DES IMAGES, je veux dire des étiquettes sur les bouteilles? Je collectionne les étiquettes ---Olivier

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4 minutes till end of session.. when is the next ting ? Ciao tutti - c'etais bien chez vous - a la proche -- luigi

Important question. When do we meet again. in Venedig ? Mattis, could you find a place for us ? I propose: Saturday, a little later, 18:00 GMT so the americans join in. Not in Venice but here on moon-edit. which americans ? Americans ? Can they read ? write ? :) (well, ...) Lion for example.

ok, i'm hungry.. getting some food :)

Ciao tout le monde ... je retourne IRL :) ++ IRL=??? IN REAL LIFE ... apluch

Ok a plus aussi Finalement, le seul truc pas mal, c'est la liste des courses pour la prochaine bouffe
 * ) donc je verrai bien le truc utile pour Maité oui comme quoi le virtuel mene au réel tout droit!! le vitruel mène aux choses essentielles !!!

ben fallait pas parler de chef c'est marrant comme ça a foutu la zone, y a pas un sociologue ou une ? ça doit être trés révélateur des limites du social software ;-) personne n'a parlé de chef ok t'as raison, des réflexes d'orga qq sait comment installer un serveur de ME ? Arnaud ? Arnaud s'y colle ! C'est toujours lui qui s'y colle, quel homme! Connectez-vous sur l'atelier du crao, cela fonctionne a cette heure : serveur "atelier.crao.net ==> chambre "craome"

Sauvegarde de la Page ______________________ A bientôt j'exporte la page... File > "Export as HTML" On pourra la déposer n'importe où ! téléportation MR Spoke b\/e / Mondanités ________________ BYE Tutti cianti :) olivie BYE Mattis soon on GP? I you want to organize a GPsession it it easy In fact i tried to involve Berlin Mediahalle in GP session, no answer from them !? Do you know them? Last year the transmediale hadn't but a fax line for application and it was swiched off the last two days by accident. No I do not know them. HUM;;THEN IT'S THE SAME LIKE IN PARIS? PALAIS DE TOKYO AND SO ON;;; offline-lamers ;) No, I should show more respect, sorry : to transmediale ;-)? fuck burocrazy viva zappata!

thats what i sent to transmediale, cause they asked for projects...

I would like to perform the first poietic-generator session in Deutschland in this context. See http://poietic-generator.net

TM.SALON - AUSSCHREIBUNG FUER PROJEKTPRAESENTATIONEN

Please send all proposals, ideas and projects no later than January 18, 2005. Send all submissions and questions to workshops@transmediale.de.

Bye, see you soon in this theater.

Ok Salut a tous... Bonne journée et vive le wikiturbotheâtre