InterNal

Here we can discuss changes in the Wiki script itself, announce changes, ask for features, give ideas, ask questions, etc..:

--- can you erase previous revisions?

i guess, we always can by deleting files on the shell, wonder if we mess up something then though with the numbering

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i changed a few wiki config settings, including 24 hour clock instead of am/pm, not showing complete IP/hostnames in public, enabled caching and a few other settings i hope to speed the wiki up a bit, and finally allowed <a href links and basic html tags.

seems like this one : $UseCache    = 1;           # 1 = cache HTML pages,   0 = generate every page was NOT a good idea. switched back to 0.

to mutante: i remember reading in @ UseMod that html caching should be used in the scenario where your wiki is getting slashdoted. for some reasons all wiki formated hyperlinks [http:// link name] are broken checking out some solutions. --KunDa to Kunda: i fixed the Wiki formated links. I also changed the setting "$NewText    = " ,which affects the text in a newly created wiki page. Try opening one that doesnt exist yet, and you will see what i made, using the InterMap --mutante

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=== Notes: =

If you hack the wiki for anything won't that mess up future patching and updates..etc...? (I like the idea..just don't want it to cause pain in the ass but not irreversible effects) -KunDa

Muta, dude, my wiki page is broken. I think i reached some type of Character limit. try to add content to my wiki page see for yourself.. -KunDa

Kunda, i checked the config file. Default is: # Maximum 210K posts (about 200K for pages) which i had already extended to $MaxPost    = 1024 * 223;    slightly. Question is, should i raise the size or should you just start splitting it up into subpages, because then it wont get so slow. And,..hmm, was it that reason at all? I could just add to your page without changing anything yet... hmm.. -mutante

Muta, I'll split it into subpages..this is a good idea. Thanks :) -KunDa

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After several people complained about the Wiki pages not being easy to read, i decided they were right and made a new stylesheet. I hope its readable better now, without being too boring. Is the new style ok? -- mutante So Far so good! -KunDa

muta, subfoldered my page, but i have a shitload of revisions..thats alot of space.. going to try to figure out how to delete revisions..btw..chk your mail -KunDa

Hey folks chk this out: http://www.research.ibm.com/history/ its research into behavior in wiki's. how the activity starts to increase from the "birth" of the wiki and on..pretty cool stuff -KunDa btw, i get some weird behavior when trying to edit this page...is it a CSS problems? ""Weird behavior == using FireFox moving the mouse in and out of the wiki text box the scroll bar for the browser disappears and reappears and there is a darker color hue when entering the wiki text box""

May/21/2004 Markus helped to hack the wiki into showing correct Google: and other links when you open a page that didnt exist before, now. thanks Markus --mutante we love you markus! -KunDa

May 24th mutante, i've noticed that when you make changes to a page you do it as a 'minor edit', problem is that i track changes via the RecentChanges page. Minor edits dont show up on that. So I dont see much of you wiki action unless i go to the main seti23.org page and see that cool link you added to teh left frame that tells you whats the latest wiki page thats been edited. I suggest that if you change a highly modified page (something like ToDoList or any of the Bittorent pages whatever) use 'minor edit' but for pages that havent been modified in a long time save them regularly. Its a suggestion. Let me know what you think. -KunDa

I agree and already tried to use it that way. Sometimes i just think its not a bigh enough change,to spam the Jabber users who get messages in their instant messanging clients when i edit,but not when i "minor edit". We agree, its just a matter of deciding what belongs to the more important changes. If nobody feels its getting too much,i will save (almost) everything as a "major" edit.

-mutante

mutante they be abusing the wiki, see how many times SandBox has been revised! bah..quite annoying! see the news for the [http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/06/07/1623244&mode=thread&tid=111&tid=126&tid=95 /.] link -KunDa

Just d/led a rss newsfeeder and its cool. I noticed that if you type a Summary while you save a wiki page it will show up in my reader under the tag. So i guess..i will try from now on to write little summarys -KunDa

Hi, MattisManzel, wikiwriter. Saw you linking on Hemidemisemiquaver which I discovered after looking for wiki without no rules some weeks ago. I discovered it after reading about MetaBaby on Meatball. MetaBaby is a shame, it's like watching someone die. It has been really big yet wild, anarchic and savage. But now any "difficult participant" is permanently cancelling everything there. MetaBaby has this (good, too good for now) and megaopen concept, no recent changes, everybody can really do everything, That's why this is possible. You here and Hemisemiquaver seem the next step to me, open but revesumeable. I could imagine many frustrated MetaBabyusers would like to continue on a kind of PreMetaBaby. I'd like to save it somehow.

Anyhow. Hi everybody. I'm MattisManzel of CommunityWiki and I do FlashMobWiki. Let's try to connect ruleless wiki. WikiNode would be a first step to do that. -- MattisManzel

Greets MattisManzel. We've been expereincing some vandalism on the wiki.

You run an excellent wikiengine, MeatBall? uses the same one. If the admin is aware of what is going on, knows how to turn it to read only and is capable to reset it to the state of before a spam attack the wiki is secure. The rest is peer control. Everybody removes Vandalism immediately. On Meatball there is some spam, removing works excellent. Automated spamattacks were solved by resetting. The situation remains dangerous, right. I didn't mean to realize that PreMetababy? idea here. That would actually be a bit too much. Sorry if I wasn't quite clear on that. Thanks for the welcome btw. -- MattisManzel

MattisMazel, if MeatBall is based on UseMod then yea, thats the engine. The admin is aware of the vandalism. I know I delete spam as soon as I see it. I wonder who else does on the wiki? Im not versed with the history of wiki to much to understand what PreMetababy is/was.

moved content to WikiSpam

Canged ont the spam-buffer idea a bit. Ridiculous, innit? Ich habe die spam-puffer idee etwas umgebaut http://cafoscari.wiki.taoriver.net/moin.cgi/SandBox. Ziemlich lΣcherlich, woll? -- MattisManzel

I have put *.online.sh.cn on the BannedList and locked the page "Weroom" and the HomePage. --mutante

[OffTopic Off topic] - So, jetzt auch in diesem Theater. Das habt ihr jetzt von eurer LeichglΣubigkeit. Nun schlachtet mich/nicht. Ich glaube, das k÷nnte funzen. -- MattisManzel

Concerning span make sure you check out Chongqed wiki: Home page

automated date functions Muta, i didnt read about this much yet.. but i think it would be neat to have different date functions for the wiki (like $ddate . whaddya think? (mayan, hebrew[lunar], unix, chinese etc..) -KunDa

ok, i'look into it.. when searching for programs to convert i found "saydate",which outputs the date and uptime on the soundcard with a human voice, thats fun, but wont work on the wiki im afraid ;) -mutante

well lets break the task up so it wont all be on you. -KunDa

id still love to make a "Figlet" tag as well... how does wiki work with tags? guess ill have to get the code a fiddle it =) but it would rule if you could text and it would print   _            _    | |_ _____  _| |_  | __/ _  / / __| | ||  __/>  <| |_   \__\___/_/\_\__|

ok,turned on, getting into it ,.. --mutante

here's a line with an example how it treats tags: # The tag stores text with no markup (except quoting HTML) s/&lt;nowiki&gt;((.| )*?)&lt;/nowiki&gt;/&StoreRaw($1)/ige;

the wiki is in Perl right?, if so then ill make a Figlet sub =) or most lickly fiddle the cgi on my site to work for this wiki... same sort of thing should work with ddate to. (/me ponders on what the e in the substution ie for) ---DrOwl

Yes, its perl. --mutante

> Heh KunDa, greetings from 21C3 -- mutante, MattisManzel & QoreQyas?

How did it go? let me know

I met the two marvellous guys yesterday before my speech. Held it, bit exited, was too long and the last fivth got cut, anyhow. Musicially spoken we got right into grooving and jammed all day long. Mostly we prepared the hive on oddmuse, as far as I got it. :) -- MattisManzel

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KunDa sent in this link: we should care about this (soon) .. mutante
 * "UseModWiki "wiki.pl" Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability" http://secunia.com/advisories/13441/

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DrogenWiki gave up due to spam. We sent them mail to offer continuing their wiki. But webmaster@drogenwiki.de didnt work. Mattis, do you know who it is and how he can be contacted another way? You said something about it in Berlin.. --mutante

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[#BigBan] Ya so i did a major ban (60.*.*.*) on Asia Pacific Network Information Centre. This is very harsh but i think necessary. I feel like its time to close the door slowly. Of course this is debateable. I also have my eye on 61.55.*.* please comment. Cheers KunDa

Can we go at least to subnets? Banning a whole continent seems a bit extreme. Consider taking adresses from http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?SpammingAddresses though to add to a more specific and longer banned list. -- mutante

I'm neither happy with banning parts of the world, no matter if China, Andorra, Luxembourg or whatever. I understand that we have to if we do not want the wiki to collapse. It's the same on Meatball. They throttle or ban and remove the spamfighting means again after a while. Not really the way to go. Dunno to what degree this is due to usemod. moin and emacs/oddmuse have a common list and suffer significantly less spam. Some of the university informatik-wikis I noded joined in on it too. http://www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/cgi-bin/fsr-wiki.pl/BannedContent. We'd be better off on oddmuse here, I guess. that's why I didn't object when we started to move s23 to oddmuse on the congress - even though the original idea had been to make the hive on oddmuse. -- MattisManzel

its really frustrating.. so im interested in the question to: what will migrating to another wiki engine do? and techniques to lessen the amount of spam cuz..as much as wiki is all inclusive...its very fragile. my suggestion was to ban and then make a special bulletin on the page that is displayed for the banned IP hwo ot get in touch with us so we could find a way to include it. this is a quick and very dirty approach or course..and most wouldnt take the time to shoot an email over. what else is out there? --KunDa

Take a look at community-wiki: banned content for an impression. I'm just proposing. l8ers -- MattisManzel 050109 some s23 thinktank action (txt) about current spamming and maybe some solutions. -KunDa

I'll answer questions on community-wiki: banned content discussion... -- Alex Schr÷der.

i still think there is possibilities of "behavior monatoring" ie a new ip comes to the wiki, and open's edit page X (without first reading any other pages) then goes and saves the page 2 seconds later, this is clearly unusual behavior, or a IP adds / modifys 20 pages a short time. we could just reutrn a "sorry we think your a cheet page"  "your changes will be reviewed by a human before being published." do we have logs of any of the spamming attak's? do they use a perticular user agent? could we change the keywords in the url? so instead of it being "action=edit" its "action=newWord" or "action=edit1234" where 1234 is a random genarated number put in the "edit this page link", so if some one opens up "action=edit" and it does not have the random seed in it they are redirected to the page with or with out a comment telling them why. or if we do want to use the funny pictures with numbers / letters in them, we could use short ones, all we have to do is make our site to much effort and the spammers wont bover... ie they would have to wright something just to spam our site. and we aint "that" popular at the moment at least... also if we have more then just one methord and randomly chose one, ie picutre, random word, dots, a second save button... ok ill finnish my rant there. =) --- love from your DrOwl

I think we could try filtering the content instead of the IP numbers. The spammer might always use a different IP but he will always want to post the same URLs. So lets make a blacklist of strings / URLs that are spammer content. And on saving a wiki page the script could run a simple search & replace and replace the spammer URLs with "fnord.spam elsewhere" or with whitespace. --mutante

I changed our apache config to have custom log files only for the wiki.s23.org virtual host in our wiki directory and made a shell script that creates stats from it. It has been added to crontab to update every hour at 23 min. You can open http://wiki.s23.org/logs/ and check it out, or type "wikistats" on the shell for real-time execution. --mutante

Guys, i need to admit something..personally..the wiki situation is starting to depress me. i love wiki, but all this spamming is really frustrating me..i'm trying to 'edit it out' when i check the recentpages..but it still bugs me. Lets do something about this..before any of us start to lose momentum. i know i feel like i slowly am. -KunDa

i know i have been saying this for a while, but im gona try hack together a mod for thre wiki that should make deSpam much eayeser. also we really need a "baned words" list... most of the spam is coming from the "same person" or at least linking to the same URL's, if we put these URLs in a baned list, we could refuse to save the edit if it contained baned words. should not be to difficult just a bit of regX (in theory any how lol) also i woild like to make a mod that checks say the current edit against the last 10 edited pages and if the content is the same again refues the edit... id have a bash tonight but iv got to go install a WiFi router =) --DrOwl

PS we need to cut down the size of the rss feed, to maybe 23???

move to oddmuse, join the emacs-wiki/moin banned content anti spam system, http://s23.org/oddmuse/oddmuse.pl/RecentChanges, I guarantee there won't be but a 1/10 th (in words: a tenth) of the amont of spam here. -- MattisManzel

Mattis, i hear you the problem is adapting to oddmuse. Most of the wiki is in Usemod format, which OddMuse partially supports. Maybe if we shut down the UseMod wiki and focus on Oddmuse? I personally feel like it's a pain in teh ass to re-learn wiki formating for a new wiki..and on further thought i realize that I just don't want to change my wiki habits, that i am fearing change. Screw that..bring on the new wiki changes. Let see if this remedies the situation. -KunDa

Chk out the OddMuse Internal page. -KunDa

Man..on the eve of the above spam discussion (synchronicity or what?!) s23 is hit with a tsunami of spam..its target is only one wiki page..why tsunami? if you look at the revision page you will be horrified to see that this time the spammer revised the page 58 times (57 of them in the span of 1 minute). this is serious. all the more reason to move to a better wiki engine with spam measures. - KunDa

its Gona baby, TranslateDE this page was giving no meaning so i deleted it. yes maybe its time to move wiki engin, things like the last atack should be eassy to automaticly filter out.

--DrOwl

mutante, this is KunDa, do you copy? over we need to activate format text control in oddmuse. can i get confirmation on that? over

we need to get oddmuse set up how we like it asap...we becoming to popular to let one spammer kill us. can we add "|" between the command links on oddmuse, becouse it confusing right now... (does oddmuse use ccs for its layouts) also i think we should make ppl set up a nick, (no need to sign up just to get the name / cokie) and have TandC's linked to it, stating that disctructive editing / spamming is not allowed on this site. and therefor spamming is ileagal. then at least we have some leigal contract with editors, even if it does us no good in reality. --DrOwl

thats it! enough spam, we wont be doing this amount of despam on a daily basis anymore! No matter how, first i will set an edit password now. (temporarily,dont worry, we wont give up the wiki spirit). --mutante

kick out the jams mothersfuckers!
 * oddmuse!

kunda, check out http://s23.org/oddmuse/oddmuse.pl/OddInterNal, tried getting the text formatting to use, found Oddmuse Extension for Usemod code, still couldnt get it to work. will try more on the weekend.. --mutante

i found an original question from BrionVibber (the wikipedia guy) about converting from usemod to mediawiki, remember wikipedia also started as usemod back in the days.. and it says:

"..but a UseMod->MediaWiki converter script is in the maintenance subdirectory of the distribution: importUseModWiki.php" will check that out now out of curiosity if it works..

http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2004-November/026347.html

--mutante

channel #mediawiki on FreeNode:

i am trying to use ./maitenance/importUseModWiki.pl, first it looks promising.." Checking page directory ..Importing page ACK .. but then it stops (ACK is the name of the first (alphabetical) page.

mutante> i would suggest mailing mediawiki-l. brion vibber is the only person who understands importusemod, and he's not on IRC much at the moment because his DSL is broken.

there is a RAW interview available here http://www.rinf.com/articles/infinity-factory.html but i cant access it. any luck for you folks? let me know.. --KunDa

Unfortunately its real media stream, Kunda..

http://www.generalnegentropics.com/mirrors/noveltynet/infinity_factory/raw1-video.ram http://www.generalnegentropics.com/mirrors/noveltynet/infinity_factory/raw2-video.ram

there you go, --mutante

DrOwl you deserve something special for this enormous despam session. THANKS!! -mutante