Talk:Operation Mindfuck

KunDa's Rant
--KunDa rant begins -- Tell you what..I sort of have a problem with this. I used to think like this and imho I don't think it is a difficult thing to destroy peoples belief-systems (Christianity is a prime example). In fact I think it's a form of violence worse then injuring their physical body. Why? Because within the persons 'mental paradigm' or 'Belief System' there exists very subtle forms of behaviors (John C Lilly called them programs) that help the organism, among many things, 'cope' and deal with all the other 'mental paradigms' external to it, "they" keep it safe. I remember reading somewhere..i think maybe in 'Meetings With Remarkable Men' by G.I.Gurdjieff that peoples conscience is embedded behind their belief in God and the Universe. If one breaks construct apart, the person is left to fend for themselves in a world they know nothing about. Yes..there is a chance it might be beneficial for them or it might be what YOU think is the best for them. But what about the other consiquences? The one where they suffer deeper trauma and/or become sociopathic, homicidal, tyranical..etc..

In the Matrix movie, Morpheus tells Neo that you can't just 'wake up' any of the people within the program, that there is resistance to the real 'truth' of it all and that too many times it had ended very wrong. It is a big responsibility to break a persons inner most beliefs. Eris probobly doesn't give a shit about this, about consiquence. Mischeviousness is her tag. But I don't endorse ideas that produce more 'Fear' for humans, we got too much of that already. If you break someone, you are responsible to show them something better, that will change their lives, make them more happy and respectful of others and aware of their own actions and how they have an impact on everything. Do you think you are up to that ? -KunDa (sorry for the rant, we should move this somewhere out of the way eventually) -- KunDa rant ends --

-- Bmearns rant begins --
 * I think you're missing the point of Mind Fucking, though. This isn't like some boot-camp kind of thing where we break you down so we can rebuild you from scratch. The point is not to replace a bad belief system with a good belief system, because there's no such thing. The point is to get people to stop believing alltogether, and start thinking and feeling, instead.


 * People don't need any tools to help them "cope" with the "real world", that's just the fnords talking. The belief systems that society grants us give us a whole host of bad advice and misinformation, and that's one of them; that somehow, the real world cannot be dealt with head on, and that we need some kind of higher power, or reason, or symbolism in order to understand and cope with it. That's bull shit. That's how we end up with psychopathic serial killers and skitzoids; people who are afraid to live in the real world because they believe it's too hard.


 * You say breaking a person's belief system will force them to live in a world they know nothing about. That doesn't scare you in the slightest, that there's people roaming around all over this planet who "know nothing about" the world they live in? That's how we ended up living in this hypereal world with imaginary leaders wielding near-ultimate physical power, bankrolled by pieces of paper backed by nothing more substantial than a leprechaun fart; where all intrinsic value has been utterly lost and replaced by perceived notions of "worth" and established norms. It's because people won't (not "can't") understand the world around them, so they make up their own rules. And all of a sudden, reality has vanished. The map has become the landscape.


 * And the whole point of Mind Fuck is to get people to recognize this fact by showing them just how arbitrary the "truths" of everyday life really are. People do this all the time, they misunderstand the meaning of "Mindfuck". Fucking has a bad conotation in our society, but that's just more of the same old shit they're feeding us. Fucking is a beautiful thing, it's the ultimate connection between two (or more) people. Mindfuck doesn't mean you're "fucking up" someone's mind in the colloquial sense. In this case, "fuck" refers to the act of sex; it's meant to represent the connection that you're attempting to make between your mind (which recognizes the grand delusions of society) and their mind (which you're hoping to illuminate).


 * But that's just what I believe.
 *  B. Mearns * , KSC 14:49, 31 May 2006 (CEST)

-- Bmearns' rant ends --
 * The discussion between KunDa and Bmearns that's above is now in a magazine! It's in Intermittens 7: Operation Mindfuck. Consult the Intermittens article for links.

Congratulations! Sheered Völva 19:21, 10 July 2009 (UTC)